Teeth Agency are Jesse Hackett, A multi-instrumentalist and music producer from London and Chicago based artist Mariano Chavez. Through open dialogue and fierce experimentation, they create new forms of music and thought-provoking artefacts. Neil Housego caught up with the duo to discuss the collector’s mindset, the joys of dissecting the lyrics from sixties pop songs and scaring their band members by burning an effigy of a snake woman in Uganda. 

Hackett’s impressive CV includes work as art-funk band Elmore Judd, teaming up with Bullion to create credible pop music as Blludd Relations and performing as an integral band member in the critically acclaimed Owiny Sigoma Band and Gorillaz. Their private art collections and shared taste in the macabre have become the foundation for their Teeth Agency and Metal Preyers projects. Teeth Agency’s recent debut album ‘You Don’t Have to Live in Pain’ fuses bubbling psychedelia, stoner jazz, the ghost of Kraftwerk with twisted R&B and echoes from the dub chamber. Sounding more like your favourite mixtape from a place not quite remembered.

Meeting over the all too familiar Zoom on a late February evening, a racked record collection sits in the frame behind Hackett, while Chavez is surrounded by a large painting table, vast collection of rolled up art and books in his art studio. Both are articulate and widely knowledgeable and without hesitation ease into the conversation.

Your collaboration together has produced some really interesting projects over the past couple of years including your work for Ngeye Ngeye tapes, the EP as Teeth Agency last year on Stones Throw and of course the new album. How did you guys connect?  

JH- I was on tour, and when we were in San Francisco, I visited Haight and Ashbury. You know, you've got all the vintage shops and stuff, and I found this Art Deco Dental Phantom, which was an object that I'd never seen before. I was really interested in the way it looked and the history behind it. I didn't buy the one they were selling because it was a little expensive, but I still had it on my mind when I came back to London. So I went online and started searching. Mariano's site was the first site I came across selling this kind of stuff, and I got more and more intrigued by all of the other stuff that he was curating and selling. It led me to find out about his actual art outside of the medical ephemera. So we struck up a conversation online, and I ended up purchasing one of these head models. It was a nice, mellow, professional sort of transaction, and there felt like a good connection between us. I come from quite a creative family background. My father is a jeweller, sculptor and artist. And so I thought Mariano might be interested in some of his work, so I started sending photos and odd things that I thought he'd be interested in and where there was, like, a correlation. It was a natural flow, chatting back and forth. I bought a few more pieces and thought it would be a good idea to try a project that used his art to respond to some of my music. That led to us setting up our website and the 'Outhouse' project. That was primarily built from a collection of home recordings I made with family members, and I've always liked to play music with my dad and his mates. The environment I grew up in was quite a social, musical sort of place, and later I got into recording these Friday night sessions, drinking, smoking hash, and jamming. I re-sculpted that into this work, called The Outhouse, and Mariano created this book of images to accompany it. His interpretation was so different from anything I'd imagined visually, and that made it really exciting. Our process was quite fluid, fun, loose and spontaneous. I was getting inspired by having these visuals to be able to connect my music to, so we started making more things together like limited edition lathe cut seven inches, jewellery projects, and limited edition books. It's a fantastic dialogue where we're just talking the whole time. Making stuff, planning and doing more stuff. 

Sounds fantastic, giving each other the space to experiment, create and respond to each other’s ideas. Are you an avid collector of art?

JH - Yeah, I've always been a collector since I was a kid, starting with, probably,  my Star Wars toy collection. I was quite obsessive about making these little visual sets with the figures. I also grew up around all my dad's collections and my mum's paintings. I was really into comics too. I got given a big stack of underground 1960's comics, Robert Crumb and all that sort of stuff. And I was just a small kid, I think that had quite a big influence.

Yeah, I think Crumb would have a big influence on any kid!

MC - During that time, he was sending me lots of stuff to look at. He was sending me pictures of Bill Hackett sculptures. And then I would show him one of my sculptures, and that back and forth dialogue led into the 'Metal Preyers' stuff. I was like, 'Wow, they're awesome sculptures’. And he told me about his dad and showed me a lot of his work that hasn't been shown before, which was inspirational.

Were you aware of Jesse's musical work when he contacted you or anything like that or was the collaboration purely built on this dialogue?

MC- No honestly, I didn't know him. I just thought he was a customer. But, I'd heard of the Gorillaz, and he was touring with them at the time. And I've been a fan of them, but I didn't know them to the point where I knew everyone in the touring band. You know, I just liked their songs. So we connected on that artistic level and the thing about us is we both have very high outputs. And I love that, and we're also not too precious with stuff. An example is the 'Outhouse' project which was about collaborating and just getting something made together. I like getting something physically made first, and then we can criticise it afterwards. 

Yeah, I think that's the best way to work. I work in the commercial arts and as an educator, and the thing is, people sometimes get caught trying to construct this perfect piece, which never happens. Just getting something done is more important in my mind. 

MC- Yeah, I feel like we're just starting to get some formation of what our projects are about. Early on we did this quick book for Bill Hackett called 'Unseen Work, and I felt like it had that outhouse vibe. You know, spontaneous, built at home, a personal documentation. That was over three years ago, so there's this evolution, and it takes time to get your thoughts together and actually understand what we've been doing.

JH- It's kind of like an archival sort of project, isn't it? Regarding what we're selling, who we're working with and whatever label it's on. It's more important to us that we keep a constant archive in the physical form. Music tends to sit around on hard drives and laptops. We've always felt like it's better to have something physically finished and presented, even if it's just a small run. You can then move on from it and develop. That's at the core of our ethos. Finish stuff and make more stuff! (laughs)

It's interesting to me that you frame yourself as a collector because the Teeth Agency debut feels like an eclectic collection of tracks. Was that intentional, or is it a result of the pieces being recorded over the past few years and then compiled? 

JH- Yeah, Chris Manak, you know Peanut Butter Wolf asked me to send him some new music, having already released a record through Stone's Throw in 2015. It's been a long break, but we kept in contact. He asked me to send some stuff because he thought it would be cool to do another thing together at some point. So I put about 6 to 8 hours of music together for him! We'd been making a few mixes for NTS and what we do is always original, from demos through to more finished tracks, so I sent him the lot.

MC - I also sent him a thick binder with lathe cuts and lots of images and photos. I think we sent out four books too. Sometimes Jesse has second thoughts, mainly the Funeral Suite stuff that may have been too depressing to release around Christmas! (Laughs) I think some of that music ended up on our first EP for Stone's Throw. 

JH - I already had a lot of those songs earmarked as strong tunes, and it was interesting because Chris picked a lot of the same tunes. We wanted to select work that would fit with the Stone's Throw kind of thing and be a little challenging to the listener as well. It's a mixed bag.

What I like about the album is that you can't pin it down. I think it's a great piece of work because of that. I'm hearing Kraftwerk, Jon Hassel and Lee Perry as part of it's DNA. Your collecting and archiving mindset make a lot of sense now. 

JH- I'm glad that you think it's eclectic whilst at the same time coherent. Some of those tunes are so spontaneous, like 'Do you like bunnies?'

Good track. I think Mariano's work provides a dark complement to the twisted R&B heart of that track? 

JH- We've created this surreal book which is full of this bright, beautiful, Doctor Suess sort of comic book imagery. Really trippy and psychedelic with a dark sense of humour. I think that fits the music. It's definitely got a sense of humour, but it's quite dark as well. 

Does the music you buy have a direct influence on what you end up exploring / producing?

JH- I never limit myself in terms of what I want to explore. I don't have an issue with different genres. If I feel like exploring something, I just do it. I think that's why my records have always felt a bit like mixtapes. The Elmore Judd stuff was even like that. It's not even intentional, but I just wanted to kind of take people on that journey. The statement I'm making is that it's fine to put all these disparate things together. It's okay to put these things that aren't normally paired together into the same collection. That's always been my manifesto. I've never made a record of a straight body of songs or something like that. Maybe I should try and make something sort of coherent one of these days (laughs). 

Do you listen to much music when you're creating your art Mariano?

MC- I'm ashamed sometimes to share my musical tastes with Jesse! I listen to a lot of radio. I've been listening to this radio station called 'MeTV Radio' and they play songs from the sixties to the eighties. I like it because they always have these obscure facts, like, 'This artist had three number one hits or they were discovered on a game show or something weird like that'. I'm into that sort of trivia and history. They'll play random stuff too like TV jingles and then they'll tell you Herb Alpert composed it. I try and put myself into the time, and then I come home and my daughter just wants to dance to 'Sweet Dreams' by the Eurythmics...every night!

When listening to some of the older stuff, I also like to pick apart the lyrics sometimes. I try to listen to every word and often uncover some weird stuff. I think, 'I can't believe they put this out in the sixties', you know? The radio forces you to listen, and you may not like it at first, but then you end up liking it. I like learning about the musician and the song. 

You're both very prolific with your work. Do you consider yourselves ambitious?

JH - Yeah. I think we're ambitious, but it's more for me something that I just have to do, like a diary. I make music because it's what I do. I mean, it's nice to work with other people that have a quick turnaround. It means we can react spontaneously to turn it into more than just the musical side. So the more the better really. There's always something that we're doing. We have lots of finished stuff that we just need to find the visual for or the right channel to release it. But there is definitely a constant flow of stuff. We're doing it for the art and because we believe in it and we love it. We also push to make new contacts so we can collaborate with different people and expand on what we're doing - really letting it build organically. I think that was always our primary marketing strategy, keep working with people that we know are good and letting it build from there without compromising the work or being told what to do.

Do you have a feel any commercial pressures, it's important to be paid for your art right?

JH - Of course, we always want the best for the project and just hope that the label or people we work with do their best to get enough eyes and ears on it so that it leads to some sales and that people know about it. That keeps us relevant and keeps things moving. You know, it's like you're only as good your work. You have to work for one thing to lead another. It's really like having a really nice business card and updated CV that shows that you're active and have intention. People hopefully take that seriously and it keeps things perpetuating. We try and hook up with people we like, artists and musicians.

We recently sent David Lynch a bunch of our stuff. We sent him a book called 'Twinners', which is one of Mariano stories. It's a surrealist vision of this desert scenario with all these weird characters, including crazy preachers and these mad twins living in this demonic situation (laughs). I created the soundtrack/ narration to accompany it and we thought it was really Lynchian. It's cool these days because maybe you can facilitate people more easily. Via social media, right? You can DM people on Instagram. I tend to find that cool and interesting people usually have time to have a look what you're up to. And if they like it, they can be quite open. Doors can unfold quite quickly. 

Have you ever looked explicitly into feature film soundtrack work? 

JH - No, but I'd love to. A lot of what we do would be very well suited to film.

I think of Mica Levi and what she did. Micachu and the Shapes through to 'Under the Skin' and beyond. You know, the way she straddled those worlds. Pretty inspirational. 

JH - Yeah, definitely. She's done so well, she's great. She has an interesting mind, original and really down to Earth. I have loads of respect for her. 

From talking to musicians like yourselves it seems like if you can get that start the projects begin to roll in?

Yeah definitely. I think we're on our way. With Metal Preyers and Ngeye Ngeye, which is quite hot right now, I'm just sensing that we're reaching a lot of new people. A new audience is getting into that music, and it feels good to see people discovering the music without necessarily knowing any of our history. Some people like yourself know the history and join the dots but it's great to have new people engaging too. I think the tape that we just released sold out within five hours or something. It was like a mad Nigerian chopped and screwed afrobeat pop thing. I don't know the genre much, but it turned into a fascinating exercise, chopping this stuff up as the primary sample source and then adding my instrumentation. We're in that bracket of doing stuff that's unusually fresh sounding. We're creating new forms, and one would hope that maybe it leads to a film score project in the future. We can handle it. The Demdike guys have been out in America too, working on film scores. 

Metal Preyers 'Metal Preyers' from late last year is almost tailor-made for a film, with the two dream sequences.

Yeah, there's a good mood to that music.

Thinking about your hunger to collaborate, can you identify what you look for? What draws you to certain people? 

JH- Musically, it's people that are taking risks and creating their own language. You know, it could be any number of things, maybe they are really good players of instruments or sometimes it's people that don't know how to play instruments at all, but are very good at putting music together. I'm looking for things that catch from my ear that I rate. We've reached out to visual artists, too and I couldn't really say it was any one thing. It's a little bit difficult to define but I definitely like work that has a slightly subversive nature. I think it's necessary for good art to challenge a little. I mean the message is important but I listen to music a lot from an experiential perspective. I've never really got excited about collaboration because of the political content or anything like that; it's not really where I'm coming from. Not to say that it couldn't be, but I think I tend to go on intuition and gut feeling. Something that can sustain my attention and take me on a journey. 

MC- Actually, I was thinking about that the other day because there's not a lot of visual artists that I want to work with. However, the reason I wanted to go study in L.A. was because of Paul McCarthy and Mike Kelley. I actually made some contacts with Kelley and he was curating a show I was in and and I always felt like I'd work with him someday. I always liked his approach and it's kind of like what we do. He takes bits of different bits of history, and there's a darkness to it, but it remains cartoony. There's just something about it I love. Also, I was thinking about Sterling Ruby. He used to be a Chicago and now he's an LA artist, and I just saw a video that I had never watched before that was really interesting. It was beautiful shots, helicopter shots in black and white of him circling different prisons. He did this sort of almost architectural horror study of the US prison system and these Supermax prisons. It's these aerial shots of all these different prisons and you see all this geometry, all these buildings face each other, and there's just something really sinister about it. 

Objectiying the building from a distance? 

MC- Yeah, and you see the shapes of the buildings and how they're designed and how restrictive they are with people packed in there yet surrounded by California's beautiful landscape. Rolling hills with these compounds and you know, there's some horror going on in there, and it's just like this, this sort of geometric documentation. I've always resonated with his work. That's somebody I would love to work with because he always reaches for whatever's around and makes stuff. And I've always been about that too. Like the stuff Jesse and I are doing together, things are all over the place, but it's a story that will play out in time. I like that we don't always know what this is, but we're channelling ideas, working them out, and over time we'll figure out what it means. Those are the kind of artists I gravitate towards. 

I was looking at some early Paul McCarthy videos. There was one called ‘WGG Test’. Somebody's got a hand held camera and they go inside a campervan and there's all these women and their standing in bikinis and then you see blood on the walls and you're kind of like, 'What the hell's going on here?' And then the woman's like, 'Let me take a whack at it' and they're chopping this guy's leg off. So you thinking at first that this is a sexy party or an orgy and then, oh shit, some guys got his leg cut off! I love that. I just love that he uses genre to seduce you, but also puts a twist on it. There's some kind of subliminal message, which is something I’m always drawn towards. 

Teeth Agency’s ‘You Don’t Have to Live in Pain’ is Out 12th March on Stones Throw. Vinyl shipping Now.

Also check out Metal Preyers latest mixtape Here.’